Design insights & tutorials.

Blank Canvas: Flash vs. HTML5

Recently we published a post regarding Apple’s stance on Flash and their iDevices. The gist of the situation is that Apple has decided they don’t want to be reliant on a third-party plugin for the iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch products.

Apple’s suggestion is for developer’s to embrace the new HTML5 specs which are supported by most current browsers, with planned support for HTML5 coming in those browsers that don’t currently support it.

There’s actually two components to this situation: the first being a browser plugin, which allows Flash-based video players and Flash-based websites (or web elements) to run on the Apple devices; the second is the new terms for the iPhone OS 4.0, which basically state that coders must use Apple’s tools to create apps for the platform.

So on one hand, we’re talking about browser content, and on the other we are talking about the App Store.

GoMedia wants to hear from you web devs out there: what’s your take on this? Not being a web developer myself, my thoughts come from an end-user perspective.

Personally, I like the idea that video and other interactive content would be browser-based as opposed to being restricted to one single authoring tool (Adobe Flash). It just seems good for the internet in general moving forward.

As far as the App Store, I think that is beyond the scope of the Flash vs. HTML5 argument as you cannot use HTML5 to build an App Store app, but one could easily build HTML5 “web apps” for the Apple devices as Google has done with their Gmail, Google Reader and Google Voice “web apps”. So let’s stick to browser-based content on this one.

I’m sure at this stage Flash has more flexibility and options for creating content than the yet-to-be-approved HTML5 standards offer. Flash has been around much longer. But in the long run, which is better for the internet in general?

Basing interactive elements within the browser as opposed to relying on a proprietary plugin just seems like the way to go. It opens up more options for competing software development tools as well as a set standard and coding language that everyone can use without needing anything more complex than a text editor.

But perhaps I am missing something here, not being a web developer (or in particular a Flash developer). As I mentioned, I am sure the Flash tools are currently more robust than HTML5, but I am also looking forward to what HTML5 has the potential to become.

With the success of the iPad, I have seen many major websites starting to at the least implement HTML5-based options for their video and interactive content. Some have decided to completely switch over from Flash to HTML5.

Go Media wants your input: what are the pros and cons of each route? Are your opinions based on your use of Flash? We’d like to hear from web developers that use Flash, and those who don’t. We’d also lke to hear from those who have used HTML5 to either replace or supplement Flash content — what were the benefits? What were the limitations?

Go!

About the Author, George Coghill

George Coghill isa freelance humorous illustrator/cartoonist specializing in mascot cartoon character design & cartoon logos. His cartooning & illustration work can be seen at CoghillCartooning.com and at his cartooning and illustration blog. Be sure to follow me on Twitter here!
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Discussion

We want to hear what you have to say. Do you agree? Do you have a better way to approach the topic? Let the community know by joining the discussion.

  • Nachtmeister

    I don't like this fight between Flash and HTML5. Flash/Action Script is a complete programming language. HTML5 just a Doctype with some nice features that can replace Flash in some ways. It's absolutely non-sense to think about, that HTML5 can replace Flash in all ways over the web. Not at this time. And HTML5 will be finished in 2022. Why are people thinking that all Browsers and Devices understand HTML5 from now on? Just think about IE6 and how long it is present. We know that it takes a long time to replace older technologies.

  • Rick Wolff

    Funny you should bring this up, George. In a bookstore I had the chance to peek at the O'Reilly book “Building iPhone Apps with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript: Making App Store Apps Without Objective-C or Cocoa” (http://www.amazon.com/Building-iPhone-Apps-HTML…) and it said there's a third-party conversion framework called PhoneGap (http://phonegap.com) that promises to translate HTML5 and JavaScript to major app standards, particularly iPhone OS. Either they're on to something, or PhoneGap is too small to show up on Apple's scopes to get shot down as Adobe was. Time will tell.

  • http://blackkeydesigns.com Grant

    I'm all about the development of HTML5; It looks sharp and it functions nicely. But for Jobs to basically avoid the existence of Flash, one of the largest trends since the internet's inception, I think is nothing short of petty.

    Get a life Steve…

  • michael2012

    The final deciding factor on this issue will simply come down to cross-browser compatibility. This is the advantage a plugin has – it will appear exactly the same in all browsers. If HTML5 canvas applications look and function the same way in all browsers, it will gain alot of ground as the preferred choice for interactive designs. If however, you need to troubleshoot interactive content and games for every single browser, forget about it. Flash will remain the first choice just for the sake of practicality.

    I don't want to have to debug a Javascript version of Farmville-like games in every single browser, do you?

  • Barry Wood

    @Nachtmeister: It's not really a situation where we're comparing HTML5 vs. Flash, it's really HTML5+Javascript+CSS vs. Flash. Javascript and ActionScript are both dialects of ECMAScript. I would be surprised if Adobe wasn't already working on Javascript output for Flash projects. They could provide a framework (like JQuery) and then the Flash developers could continue to use their tool of choice and still end up with standards-compliant output.

    michael2012 also has a good point about debugging, with Flash you only have to make it work in one environment, with Javascript you have to make sure that it works in various browsers. As we move forward it is getting better with more solid standards support. I've found that using the JQuery framework, I've had to do little for browser compatibility. I would think that this would be possible if Adobe were to create their own Javascript framework for Flash.

    The app store issue is whole 'nother deal. I think that Apple's open letter did have some solid technical reasons for not supporting Flash. On the other hand, not supporting Flash does help them sell more apps since many of them are rewritten Flash games you can play for free online. I'd call this one a draw.

  • sbparke

    I'm excited to finally be able to be less reliant on flash for video on the web (FLVs) and I think jQuery and JavaScript offers a lot of great things for the web. However Flash still offers so much potential for great interactive pieces that its hard to see it get so much hate… Ok sure, maybe Flash isn't ideal for mobile devices I get that, but great things on the web.

  • http://www.brainofj.com brainofj

    I've been thinking about this quite a lot over the past few weeks. Let me preface my comments by saying, I have used flash since it was purchased by macromedia and cranked out as Flash3. I've used it to animate, and even more recently, develop small apps with moderate interaction. (Nothing game level etc.)

    I have always had reservations about Flash, and some of it's limitations. Some of which have yet to be resolved. Flash even some of it's smaller content has almost always required the writing of a pre-loader. With the exception of some of Hillman Curtis' work (and I am sure there are others) most flash work requires pre-loaders, and a fairly significant download time ( to me 30seconds of download time is very significant on the web). Have you seen much of anything worth waiting 30sec for on the web? especially advertising? NOW compound that with our 3g connections through your mobile device of choice, horrendous user experience.

    I for one, have chosen to remove my flash work from my portfolio, and from my resume. Is it wise? I don't know, given the number of jobs out there for “Flash developers” maybe not, but then again, I tend to agree with not just Steve Jobs, but many others as well, that Flash, in its current iteration, and without significant change, that Adobe has had years to implement already, is a technology of the past, and has little place in the web of the future.

  • http://www.mckibillo.com mckibillo

    Ever since Apple came out with it's “no more Flash” announcement I've been in a state of uncertainty… I've been using Illustrator for years now to create static pieces, many of them infographics. But I've wanted to begin offering animation as part of my skill set. And specifically, because of the introduction of the iPad (ironic in light of Apple's anti-Flash stance) and all the great interactive content that promises for magazine like offerings, I thought about learning Flash, since it's such a companion to Illustrator. Now I'm really not sure how to leap…?
    This may be a bit off topic, but it's something I haven't really seen addressed yet in all the Apple vs Adobe talk. That is, not what developers should do, but what should content providers do? Should I learn to animate in Flash? If not what's a future proof alternative?

  • recoilfx

    First of all, Flash isn't really as proprietary as many may think. Adobe has opened the SWF spec two years ago, welcoming anyone to implement their own Flash player.

    There isn't really any viable third party players due to the complexity of Flash Player and codec licensing issues. Though, there are bunch of little useful open source SWF utilties (ie, SWFtools, converts PDF into SWFs).

    Most of videos should move to HTML5, and even advertisement/animation should probably move to HTML5 via canvas (as long as there are good creation tools). HTML5 will most likely never beat Flash in performance. Flash doesn't have the whole DOM to worry about, and SWF is pre-compiled for performance optimizations.

    The reason Flash seems slow is because of the nature of multimedia functions. Put enough frames/blends/movies/blurs will bring most system down. Doing the same animations/application/game in HTML5/JS will result in even poorer performance.

    It seems that Flash will most likely develope into a Rich Internet Application platform. Let's face it, HTML5+CSS+JS is a really crappy way to develope internet applications. HTML5 is a document format, it was never meant for application development.

    Adobe on the other hand, has Flex, a framework based on Flash. It is so much nicer to develope for than the whole mixbag of HTML5+CSS+JS. Even with JS libraries such as jQuery, performance and ease of design and developmenent can't be matched with the whole Flash ecosystem.

  • http://twitter.com/hawkenking hawken king

    I'm not sure this article adds much to the debate thats already raging over the internet.

    You don't seem to have done any research (you can use HTML5 in apps, I already do) and there are a now a ton of articles showing developers how to embed video to web pages in easily degrading steps. Check out “video for everybody” http://camendesign.com/code/video_for_everybody

    Basically, Flash is good for games in browsers. It has no revenue model except Adobes pocket, or if you (the developer) get some high traffic on a site like Newsgrounds. I've built countless flash games only to have them ripped off by hundreds of FrEe GaMez! type webshits.

    The internet wants to get paid, developers want to get paid. Flash is shit!

  • http://www.pixelbath.com/ Michael

    This debate is getting old. HTML5 will be great until a product exists that lowers its barrier to entry, then it'll be abused the same way Flash is now.

    I'm not sure what the phrase “best for the Internet” is supposed to mean. Do you mean better for consumers, or better for developers? On the consumer side, there's no difference. The HTML5 spec does not prohibit creation of an overlaying element, nor does it remove the ability to display animated elements. Sure, it's Flash ads now, but it won't be long before advertisers start mass-producing standards-compliant ads (IIRC, it took about 5 years once Flash reached 90% market penetration for Flash ads to become standard).

    Are we guaranteed HTML 5 will work the same in all browsers? Do browser makers really, really promise this time? Once it's approved, that is.

    People have declared the death of ASP, PHP, Java, Flash, Usenet, Quicktime, and many other things that are still used quite a lot in 2010 in many real businesses (yes, Insert-Business-You-Work-For-Here is not the center of the tech universe). Adobe has a lot of money invested in Flash. Whether you like it, hate it, or are indifferent to it, Flash is here to stay.

  • max

    First of, as a developer I like to be able to pick my tools. Ofcourse I'm biased though, I work in Flash. Have worked in Flash for a long time and I like to work in Flash.

    It works exactly the same, crossbrowser, cross platform, that's important to me. I've heard a lot of complaints about stability and resource hogging never really experienced that to be a huge issue myself, a bad programmer can create issues using any method. (hey if 80% of your cpu is in use, that means 20% is still being wasted)

    Javascript and html on the other hand, I don't know how it'll be in HTML5 but in the past I've always been greatly irritated at how it is interpreted differently in every browser.

    I get the idea HTML5 is more useful on mobile devices that ship with up to date and modern browsers than desktops and laptops. It's going to be a long time before HTML5 capable browsers are so widespread it's a save bet you can reach everyone with your applications. (people I can already reach with a single flash build) Just looking at our websites analytics I'm seeing a sizeable chunk of users still using IE6 for instance.

    At any rate it's not the end of the world. If need be I'll switch, if it's interesting I'll use both. Right now, Flash still has a lot of merits.

  • Perilous

    So basically what your saying is you don't know how to code properly and flash… and because you don't know it is shit.. and if you are a web developer you more than likely suck at your job

  • Perilous

    I have been developing in flash/flex for the past 5 years. I came from a Java Program and used JSP' and java script before. Sure there is a lot of bad flash because the bar to entry is relatively low. However, developers who understand how to code meaning they understand designer Patterns and how to actually build GUI's know that Flash is far better solution than any JS paradigm using JQUERY or MOO TOOLs or some other JS LIBRARY when it comes to creating masterful interactive experience, basically a RICH INTERNET APPLICATION. Not saying you can't make a site look good good with just HTML and JS… but I have yet to see and site in HTML5 and or HTML and JS that can emulate a Flash 10 website.. Numerous blogs post a URL to some site saying this is why Flash will die… and when I see the site all I see is an animation that looks like something from 1995 when flash was called Future Splash. I spend most of my waking life on the internet, building flash using both MACS and windows, and sure I see some Flash that crashes, but that total is about 5% of the flash apps i see. All these people claiming that Flash is killing their machines are either fibbing or their hardware sucks ass. If flash dies, it will die because something else out there is better and right now it definitely ain't html 5/css3.. So you js script kitties and system admins who revel in Steve Jobs desire to kill flash soak it up while it last because when the dust settles, Flash will still be around and as popular as ever, may be not on the IPAD or IPHONE but hey that is Steve Jobs and all his fan boys loss.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Jkirk3279 William Carr

      “All these people claiming that Flash is killing their machines are either fibbing or their hardware sucks ”

      Don’t blame the Victim, Bro.   And as of this week, Adobe caved and decided to allow Flash to carry non-Flash content for iPads, etc.

      It’s the first step to solving the problem.

  • lookingsideways

    That HTML5 is just a doctype etc is completely false. We're talking about the platform has a whole here; HTML5 + CSS3 + JS.

    When you look at it that way, it's just as powerful a platform as Flash + ActionScript. Flash is really only a scriptable graphics API, exactly the same as is already being created with JS and the Canvas element.

    The differences right now come down to the tools available to develop for said platforms. Web standards has an extremely low barrier to entry for app production with a multitude of development environments available, whereas flash has a lower (but single and expensive) entry point for multimedia production.

    That gap will close over time and we're already seeing the first tentative steps towards this with the canvas based graphics libraries that are emerging. There will eventually be flash-like programs available that will allow web standards based multimedia creation just as easily as is currently possible in flash – hell, even Adobe have publicly said they will be working on it.

    The huge problem with Flash right now is that it's just not workable on these portable devices whereas there's very fast, native implementations of HTML5, CSS3 and JS. As pointed out in the main article above there's no reason to be using Flash purely as a video container – that already cuts out 90-95% of Flash use that most consumers on these devices would be exposed to anyway.

    The web landscape is changing and the mobile space is at the forefront of the revolution. Adobe/Flash have had their time and are rapidly going to be overtaken by a platform that is more open to a much wider developer audience.

  • lookingsideways

    I don't think we'll end up in a situation like this. We're already there with JS libraries such as jQuery etc, why would it be any different when using a canvas based library?

    Flash has already been through that transitional phase when it created players for linux and mac – and in some ways it's still not completely there, I still see massive performance issues in Flash for Mac (to the point where I can run flash apps faster in a windows virtual machine running on the mac than I can natively. Cheers Adobe.) and there are still slight differences visible between the platforms especially in the larger apps/games.

  • whacko

    Doesn't Apple's developer agreement pretty much prohibit any 3rd party conversion frameworks? I mean, sure you could make an App in anything you want and convert it to work on the iPhone. And then Apple will just not approve your App for App Store placement because it wasn't written in Objective-C.

    I think Flash CS5 has a tool that will convert a Flash app into an iPhone friendly version. But they are nixing support for it because of Apple's new, more restrictive standards.

  • whacko

    Can't we have both?

    HTML5 might be the future, but Flash is relevant TODAY. And when I last checked iPhones and iPads were being sold in 2010 at the same time when Flash is the defacto standard for rich web content and HTML5 is just a glint in the W3C's collective eye.

    Yes flash can be clunky and it is used for purposes that it is not properly suited (like video playback) but there is A LOT of free content on the web right not, that is worthwhile and that required Flash to run.

    I don't have anything against HTML5, really. But I don't think ignoring Flash's placement on the web is really in the best interest for consumers TODAY. A lot of websites are still dependent on Flash for displaying content, and while some of them are converting to HTML5-based technologies right now, or planning to, that still adds up to a significant amount of content you cannot access.

    I have seen the “so what, if they don't want to keep up with latest standards they don't care if you see their content” argument, which is short sighted and ignores the valid point that if you went to that site to look something up, lack of Flash support is detrimental to you.

    It is analogous to Ford or Toyota saying that next year they are moving all their cars to electric engines so today they are closing down all the gas stations. Sure, someday you will be able to get a shiny electric car, but today your needs aren't being met.

    I have heard complaining about battery life, and performance issues etc. But let me, as a consumer, decide how to use MY device.

  • KolNedra

    This seems like a hot topic nowadays. Flash vs HTML5.

    I don't see why those two should compete against eachother.
    Let HTML5 (and ofcourse javascript) 'take over' the videoplayback and simple animation. And let flash do the advanced (3d) stuff (just browse thefwa.com and you'll see).

    And on the other side, flash (IDE) is just a tool. If there is a better platform, IDE or solution; i'll use that. I'm not a flash developer, i'm a webdeveloper. And flash is (at this time) still the best solution for a lot of things.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Isley2 Isley Ilu-Vtania Isah

    Only Flash Lamers squeal that HTML 5 is better than flash. I mean, you picked flash and the learning curve was to steep and bla bla bla.
    Common sense tells me that i shud pick a technology that helps be achieve more with lesser clicks and fewer lines of code than have to import Libraries whose sole purpose is just imitation. IMO. Not that i hate HTML 5….me thinks it's great…it just doesn't hold the firepower for Awesome UIX.

    Wait…Think about this. HTML 5 will be a standard in 2022. Flash 10 is now. by 2022 FlashX2 (assuming that's the name they adopt) will rock so hard and kick so much ass that the HTML advocates will call for another “semantic” review.

    People, look, let's call it as it is. Apple doesn't like Adobe. Plain simple. We get it. But starting a global debate over baseless facts and even dumber reasons is stupid. Rilly. Because in the nearest future, hopefully before 2015, HTML5 and Flash will be able to roll together (and communicate) side-by-side over the same platform.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Isley2 Isley Ilu-Vtania Isah

    Gud luck with reworking your flashless port-folio. It's a design decision and shud be respected as such. But never say Flash is outdated. Infact….enlighten us. Define Outdated…and i'll tell you about the era of IE6

  • http://www.facebook.com/Isley2 Isley Ilu-Vtania Isah

    “When you look at it that way, it's just as powerful a platform as Flash + ActionScript. Flash is really only a scriptable graphics API, exactly the same as is already being created with JS and the Canvas element. “

    Agreed…but does any JS framework have an IDE i can tinker without having to dive into code?

  • http://www.jagdesignideas.com Joel Glovier

    George – what a great topic. As a designer who learned web design/development fairly recently (w/in the past 2 years) – I for one think this is terrific. I don't know that we should go down the whole “kill Flash” route, but I DO think Apple's stance on flash has been the single biggest contributing factor to the progress of HTML 5 in recent time.

    We all (or at least web developers) know that the progress of web technologies is a horrifically slow and contorted process. And worst of all, it doesn't always end in the best results (just see the war web designers/developers are STILL fighting against IE's “own method” of interpreting browser standard rules for CSS ).

    So anytime something like this Adobe vs Apple war happens and the end result seems to be an increase focus on what is really best for the future – I'm all for it.

    Again, I don't think we need to throw flash out the window. The trouble is that it has been relied upon far too long to fill a gap that maybe it really shouldn't be filling.

    From a web designers perspective, the most exciting things about HTML5 have nothing to do with Flash content, or any other media content for that matter. The exciting things about HTML 5 is that it is going to ultimately support semantic markup for layout based components. (“wait – huh?”)

    So the thing about the web right now is that it was never created with design in mind. So developers used to do funky things with tables to make it look nice. Then more progressive minds started using an addon document, called a stylesheet, to make web documents look better in a more appropriate way. The trouble still is, though, that HTML itself doens't contain any semantically meaniful way to layout the page. So HTML5 adds that support.

    That's the most exciting bit to me. And the fact that this Flash crap has pushed HTML5 as a standard sooner? That's all just gravy baby.

  • http://www.jagdesignideas.com Joel Glovier

    I agree that Flash still provides some important uses that we should not just negate. But I DON'T agree that it's the “defacto standard for rich web content” on the web today. There's little from a “rich user interface” perspective that can't be done with jQuery or Ajax also – and in a more accessible format.

  • whacko

    I was thinking more interactive games and such. Stuff that might not be strictly necessary to the internet as an institution, but without which the internet would be colder, less amusing place.

    I mean, where would be be without Newgrounds or Adultswim.com? :)

  • whacko

    Flash games and cartoons are usually worth the 30 second wait to me. Especially the games. I mean I am aiming to waste time anyway at that point and what's another 30 seconds?

    Everyone needs a little fun once in a while, I shudder to think of what the Internet would be like it it was all shopping, blogs and nothing else.

  • http://www.jagdesignideas.com Joel Glovier

    Yes, OK. So exactly why I would say Flash still has a place on the net. Just not as a framework for entire websites most of the time.

  • http://nname.org nname

    this is a battle that is too big even for Steve. Flash is here to stay

  • catsqueezer

    This whole Apple-Adobe Flash issue reminds me so much of the Microsoft-SUN Java issue of years back. Interesting that Apple positions itself as the anti-Microsoft and yet behaves just like it by bullying its developers and dictating what tools they use to develop with. I understand the desire for a rock-solid platform but come on Steve. I am beginning to use Unity to develop games and right now they are having a hell of a time getting certified to run on the iPlatform. Such a shame as the application and philosophy of its creators are very accessible… exactly what Apple pretends to be.

  • John

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  • John

    great

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    what is the different for html and html5 ?

  • http://www.lookatmycrazyshoes.com/fitflop-walkstar-iii-p-2347.html walkstar

    It’s interesting that this topic comes up at a time when I’m slated to begin a Adobe Flash class at my school towards the end of the month. I really liked your take or more correctly, your unbiased view on the Flash – HTML5 war. My personal learning focus has been mainly towards “open” technologies such as JavaScript, PHP/SQL, etc. At this point I’m not sure if I’ll really worry too much about adding action script to the list, yet.

  • http://www.artjunky.com Lee Fairbanks

    I'm, frankly, tired of having the proverbial rug pulled out from underneath me. Its a CONSTANT race to stay up-to-date with the daily addition of some new acronym. We are forced to spend countless hours adapting to and learning what the “Industry” throws at us.

    Just when you think you're safe learning something, the powers throw something new at you. For those of us that have to “learn it all,” it's a serious mental drain.

    I wish I could just spend all my time learning ActionScript. I don't have a programmer so I also have to learn PHP, ASP, .NET. MySQL, MSSQL, JavaScript, JQuery, CSS1, CSS2, CSS3, HTML, XHTML, HTML5. Did you see my brain explode? I also have to Design and then make sure it all works and do it as well as Amazon.com. Never mind that Amazon.com has hundreds of Designers/Developers…

    As Mr Incredible said, “No matter how many times you save the world, it always manages to get back in jeopardy again. Sometimes I just want it to stay saved! You know, for a little bit? I feel like the maid; I just cleaned up this mess! Can we keep it clean for… for ten minutes! ”

    I can relate to his frustration.

    Personally, it feels as though html5, in some ways, is charting the path as to how browsers adapt to corporate/technological innovation. Yet, the individual players Apple/Adobe/Microsoft/Google… all jockey for domination and everyone be damned. The implication of all this is that all the technology is expendable and ultimately, fleeting.

    The equivalent is like trying to catch smoke in a birdcage.

  • http://www.rascalpants.com rascalpants

    “As pointed out in the main article above there's no reason to be using Flash purely as a video container – that already cuts out 90-95% of Flash use that most consumers on these devices would be exposed to anyway.”

    I think you are misrepresenting the statistics, or I am misunderstanding what you have pointed out here.

    What you have stated makes it sound like 90-95% of Flash being “consumed” on the web is Flash Video (FLV), and only 5-10% of the rest is SWFs or web sites, banners, and applications.

    again… probably my mistake, but what you said doesn't make sense.

    as for Adobe/Flash having their time… that statement is a bit naive… At this point, there is only one competitor to Flash and that is SilverLight. And with Microsoft behind that technology, I would give it a fighting chance. CSS+JS+HTML5, or CJ5 as I am officially calling it, is a scripting platform for web pages. The Flash Platform is a programing language for Rich Internet Applications, Desktop application, and Mobile applications (Flash to Android).

    You really cannot compare the two.

    rp

  • pheno

    I'm a flash user and i don't care what Steve want. Do you really want to get dictated what user should see , use and do you as programmer want to be limited by Steve's personal likes and dislikes? For me it's easy way to go by now: Using Windows machine, using Linux or Unix machines and boycott any apple products. Sure they are nicely designed and have some good features. But there are maybe 5% MacUser and the rest uses other machines. Apple still is a minority to the other oportunities. And sure a Windows machine may cause more trouble then a mac. Steve behaves like a dictator and all dictators have fallen deep in the past after a short or long period of time.
    Design of a product is not all – it's essential but not all. Think about flash would be an apple product and not macromedia or Adobe one. Since he would make money with it he would like it. One exsample for his greed is his own software. You pay 80$ in the applestore for a software. You can buy it since you was suggerated thats what you need. you did not get the message that this software may not compatible with your mac. Now you want to install it. The installer can't start and your message provided is: This is not running on your machine – buy a new mac to run it… there is no way to get your money back for the software. Thats rip off. A Steve Jobs logic to this is THINK DIFFERENT… it should be “don't think just spend your money” – thats how he may define the different…
    we all – however and how good html css java is for our personal needs – we all should just think about what justifies 1 single person limiting the wants of millions.
    So this my personal meaning. But i know thousands of other think not different…and i also know Steve may be pissed by reading this kind of posts and gets his lawers starting to stop those posts like this one…but anyway who cares since we have free right for thoughts.

    The people who decide to use a platform not supporting flash, well they might be limited to other stuff. Everyone of us know someone liking flash and someone may dislike it, that's an old story. There are allways two points of view, and both should be tollerated – if this is not the case it is intolerant. But between intolerance and embasselment there is a big difference…

    I'm open to all the programming opportunities and i use what fits the clients projects best.
    And lots of my clients say flash fits their needs best so they get it in flash.
    It might be said that for some kinds of sites I personally prefer HTML/CSS.

    My conclusion is:
    For me the client is king and not a Steve Jobs…

  • pheno

    well you mentioned IE own methods – if it – in this case the specific browser – does not want to follow the standart rule – ignore it. if something is crap and everybody know it nobody will use it at some time (okay the time has to come first but it will come by time). It's same with the “I”-products… now everybody think its cool and different, it's a must have but the time will come sooner or later when people realize that they are ripped off in prize vs value for that money. There are cheaper products with more value and possibilities – the only thing they are missing is a premorsed apple – put a sticker of a premorsed banana on your product and it's even cooler as bananas are cooler and more delicious than apples^^ – if you don't like bananas choose a fruit other then an apple of your choice…

    i'm on your site with an exploding head managing dozens of different (web)languages and tools renewing all the time …but that's part of the business. It's also clear that as a single / one-man company / freelancer / firm cannot have that power and skills as a multi-overpowered company such as amazon with 100th of developers. but what we can do is specialize , looking for the one or other gap and our skills. flash was and is there a good point to start since it's easygoing to design and scripting without running in an endless issue of renewing knowledge every 5 minutes instead of concentrating on clients projects… so if you concentrated past 5 years f.Ex. in learning and enhancing your actionscript/flash skills and things goes bad for flash now those flashers are fucked by a single person who has a personal dislike. Steve goes richer and richer since his crap sells like butter but 1000 of flash-oriented talented developers are jobless until they have reorientated again. So for that point of view it's best to have the one or other 2nd skill up one's sleeve. For me, it's video editing and motion grafics – this is fastliving too but manageable without spending to much energy on new stuff. And if the flash lives on – i can beautifully combine both together…

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  • Joe

    Yes. I don't think Jobs has our best interests at heart. We have goals and one of them is to be entertained. Not allowing flash on his devices impedes my ability to accomplish my goal. Why would I buy into a company that overtly does that?

    As a developer I prefer to become and export in one thing but I keep getting forced to learn and use several. I am in fact a web developer and I do use HTML, JS and CSS and while I love what I do, if given the prospect between 3 somewhat incompatible languages vs one monolithic language. I'll take one thank you.

    Still, the user rains supreme. They have needs and money so I'll go with whatever it is they want to do. Enable them to reach their goals with whatever works. I think that means get Flash on Apple devices now and help developers port to HTML5. Not code-block them until they switch.

  • Jayster

    Not sure any of this is an issue for Flash Developers. The only part of HTML 5 that could be a threat is the adoption of Apple’s older canvas api into the standard, and it’s vague native browser API stuff. yeah you can stream a video… but… who cares? 99% of HTML5 is just HTML4 with some new and better tags for organizing content on the page, building better forms and using CSS3. Ultimately it doesnt matter. To make any useful or high end animations or RIA’s etc… you still need to be a VERY proficient programmer in the languages supported. HTML5 is actually the first iteration of HTML to include the tag formally, so you can still embed flash all you want. If I can use Flash and AS3 (a fully object oriented and very powerful programming language) to develop multimedia applications and RIA/s, and games and desktop applications that run on Mac Linux and Windows (the AIR platform) and crank out awesome Andriod apps all day… all using an interface that makes it easy and beautiful… and I can link to databased via PHP and XML and blah blah blah all day long… the question is WHY would I develop in canvas? I can jst use a danged embed tag and keep making it in flash/as3! and by the way… you CAN code AS3 in a text editor. Most people don’t because that is slow and rediculous in any language IMO. A high end IDE is essential these days, especially for designers of any kind. And AS3 and Flash is more than a web tool… it’s a fully robust application development tool now. I just don’t think people understand the various technologies well enough. JavaScripters will remain JavaScripters… and maybe they will embrace canvas etc…. but AS3 programmers will remain AS3 programmers and keep doing all the radical stuff they do. I don’t see anyone dying off here, and I don’t see why HTML making it easier to use Javascript will be a threat to anyone. We are at Flash Player 10 for goodness sakes, and 99.9 % of browsers run it out of the box. FLV streaming already smashes quicktime on the web… it’s all way beyond banners, and it crushes Silverlight in the scope of what AS3 can be used for. I don’t get it. I must be missing something. I build entire online academies and lesson modules for fortune 500 biotech companies… all flash 100%. Includes testing and sending/recieving of data to/from ASP.net servers and the whole 9 yards. Works on every machine, in every browser, and it all looks the same. It runs fast and I am only limited by my imagination. I can export out desktop apps for them, and I can make apps for their phones. HTML5 isn’t going to change that. i cn make a movie turn into fricking asteroids right in the middle of a quiz if I want to. I like HTML5 and I can’t wait for it to be released. It will provide a better standard for me to embed my flash ;) lol Whuddever. Can use more of that cool CSS3 stuff then too.

  • Jayster

    And I have to quickly add, which most people don’t ever seem to address… Macintosh computers (though I agree, very cool and sleek) represent a very small portion of the business marketplace. The vast majority of business/companies/conglomerates are cranking data with other systems. I don’t think flash not running optimally on a mac is even much of issue. though… that is weird to me, because a couple of the gnarliest flash designers/programmers I work with are 100% mac lovers, and they don’t ever have a problem. Heck, until the last rev, their systems had a few added features in the software for exporting than my pc version did. Doesn’t make sense. No matter what is said on here, you still have to be a gnarley programmer. HTML5 support for canvas and native APIs doesn’t hand anyone skills they havn’t already developed. And all those guys are already out there and can put their stuff on the web today.

  • Anonymous

    I can’t understand “adobe vs html5″ that is discussing in the internet, here and there, especially, when jobs declared that the outstanding tablet, ipad, won’t support adobe. I have an impression of adobe that it can play any videos with different video format, in opposite, html5 supports h.246 (According browser publishers’ will) someone thought html5 should take 10 years before replacing adobe in the areas like games, desktop widgets, e-learning interactivities and many applications that require advanced animation API or techniques. As ifunia lists in their official website, html5 can’t replace adobe at once, because “74% of the web can’t be seen on the iPad” (that means you have to convert videos by 3rd-party video converter like ifunia and handbrake), ipad needs help, let alone html5, now! So, adobe is necessary for our digital life all the same.
    http://www.ifunia.com/ipad-column/on-apple-ipad-html5-and-flash.html

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  • http://www.klavisnurs.com Klavis

    When you look at it that way, it’s just as powerful a platform as Flash +
    ActionScript. Flash is really only a scriptable graphics API, exactly
    the same as is already being created with JS and the Canvas element.

  • http://www.klavisnurs.com Klavis

    When you look at it that way, it’s just as powerful a platform as Flash +
    ActionScript. Flash is really only a scriptable graphics API, exactly
    the same as is already being created with JS and the Canvas element.

  • http://www.klavisnurs.com Klavis

    When you look at it that way, it’s just as powerful a platform as Flash +
    ActionScript. Flash is really only a scriptable graphics API, exactly
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